The basic position that AOL takes is that they are right and everyone else is wrong. This comes through loud and clear in a number of messages. In addition, it's abundantly clear that the drones working at AOL simply send out canned messages to anyone who attempts to complain. You will see this very clearly in a number of the email messages.
If you are a list owner (or know of one) who has had any similar problems with AOL, please drop me a note at farokh@mcf.com, and let me know. It would be interesting to see just how many lists have been affected by AOL's arrogance.
The reader will also take note that not once did Steve Case bother to reply directly to any of my mail to him. Indeed, a number of times messages sent to him were bounced with "mailbox full" errors!
Unfortunately, due to my belief that this was something that AOL would quickly fix, I neglected to save the first few messages that I sent and received from AOL. These messages are in chronological order, and so appear to be jumbled a bit since I was holding multiple conversations.
The story picks up after the initial first exchange where I sent mail to various people at AOL attempting to find out just who I should contact. I was informed that the address to use was listmaster@aol.com. AOL requested that I send them some of the rejected messages so that they can figure out what the problem is.
Note that I have changed none of the messages other that to format them for HTML, and to remove any email addresses of subscribers to the sheltie-list.
I have made no attempt to organize the messages in anything other than chronological order, so it may be tough to follow all the various threads...
Dear Farokh,
Thanks for your note. I wrote your subscribers that AOL resumed
accepting source-routed email in mid-month, because that was the prior
issue that involved quite a few lists, and I wanted to eliminate any
settings from your end from consideration.
Since you've forwarded the rejection messages, I can forward them on to
the iDOT team manager here for review. AOL has been rejecting mail from
lists with more than a threshold volume of bounces; this change started
quite recently and it may be causing the block in this instance.
I hope to have someone back in touch with you shortly.
Regards,
______________________________________
Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com> "Dances with lists"
AOL Internet Development, Outreach & Technology team
Hi Farokh,
Your contact person for this problem is Scott Crain of AOL's iDOT team.
I've
forwarded him your earlier message and am copying him on this reply so he's
aware of the situation. Scott is in contact with operations and is thus
the
best person to work with on the rejection problem.
I'm advising the AOL members asking about the Sheltie list that we're
working on the problem.
Regards,
Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com>
-------------
In a message dated 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT, you write:
<< Subj: Re: Sheltie list/AOL
Date: 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT
From: farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
To: ListMaster@aol.com
>Dear Farokh,
> Thanks for your note. I wrote your subscribers that AOL resumed
>accepting source-routed email in mid-month, because that was the prior
>issue that involved quite a few lists, and I wanted to eliminate any
>settings from your end from consideration.
> Since you've forwarded the rejection messages, I can forward them on to
>the iDOT team manager here for review. AOL has been rejecting mail from
>lists with more than a threshold volume of bounces; this change started
>quite recently and it may be causing the block in this instance.
> I hope to have someone back in touch with you shortly.
>Regards,
>______________________________________
>Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com> "Dances with lists"
>AOL Internet Development, Outreach & Technology team
So, what's the scoop? Some sheltie-list mail went through, but it appears that it's all being bounced again.
Farokh
>>
Hi.
You don't know me. My name is Jason and I work for America Online. I got a call from Roberta (I don't remember her last name) a few days ago to cancel her account. She was frustrated that she couldn't receive her sheltie-list mail. Her email address is xxx@aol.com. I thought, from what she told me, that this might be a problem because this mail was sent out with a listserv. She sent me your letter and confirmed some of what I thought.
I told Roberta that I would try to figure out where the problem was coming from. Not only for her, but that would help all the other AOL members on your list also. I thought there might be a block somewhere that was stopping this going out specifically because it is a listserv. Normal email wouldn't be blocked. We both thought that your list might perhaps be on a list we have called Preferred Mail. It is simply a way to block certain forms of junk email. I checked but you're not on it. Your list is actually actively subscribed to also, which wouldn't make any sense if that was the case. Can your mail be routed through a server that is on the list perhaps?
Any info you could send to me about what possible blocks there could be would be greatly appreciated. I'll get in contact with the technical dept. here and see what I can come up with. I'm really interested in getting this sorted out.
Thank You,
Jason
The following are quotes from messages I have received from listmaster@aol.com and hi2jason@aol.com. The message from hi2jason is from 5/31/97 and from listmaster is 5/30/97.
I have heard nothing back from anyone about the problem, other than the 1800 bounced messages from AOL and the 107 messages that I have received from various AOL members asking me why they are not receiving the list.
If this is not resolved VERY VERY SOON, and I do NOT hear back from someone, I will simply set up my email reader to forward to YOU (all three of you) the bounced messages that are coming back to me. Maybe that will get a response?
>Hi.
>
>You don't know me. My name is Jason and I work for America Online. I
got a
>call from Roberta (I don't remember her last name) a few days ago to
cancel
>her account. She was frustrated that she couldn't receive her
sheltie-list
>mail. Her email address is xxx@aol.com. I thought, from what she
told
>me, that this might be a problem because this mail was sent out with a
>listserv. She sent me your letter and confirmed some of what I thought.
>
>I told Roberta that I would try to figure out where the problem was coming
>from. Not only for her, but that would help all the other AOL members on
>your list also. I thought there might be a block somewhere that was
stopping
>this going out specifically because it is a listserv. Normal email
wouldn't
>be blocked. We both thought that your list might perhaps be on a list we
>have called Preferred Mail. It is simply a way to block certain forms of
>junk email. I checked but you're not on it. Your list is actually
actively
>subscribed to also, which wouldn't make any sense if that was the case.
Can
>your mail be routed through a server that is on the list perhaps?
>
>Any info you could send to me about what possible blocks there could be
would
>be greatly appreciated. I'll get in contact with the technical dept. here
>and see what I can come up with. I'm really interested in getting this
>sorted out.
>
>Thank You,
>Jason
and
>
>Hi Farokh,
> Your contact person for this problem is Scott Crain of AOL's iDOT team.
I've
>forwarded him your earlier message and am copying him on this reply so
he's
>aware of the situation. Scott is in contact with operations and is thus
the
>best person to work with on the rejection problem.
> I'm advising the AOL members asking about the Sheltie list that we're
>working on the problem.
> Regards,
> Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com>
>
>-------------
>
>In a message dated 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT, you write:
>
><< Subj: Re: Sheltie list/AOL
> Date: 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT
> From: farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
> To: ListMaster@aol.com
>
> >Dear Farokh,
> > Thanks for your note. I wrote your subscribers that AOL resumed
> >accepting source-routed email in mid-month, because that was the prior
> >issue that involved quite a few lists, and I wanted to eliminate any
> >settings from your end from consideration.
> > Since you've forwarded the rejection messages, I can forward them on to
> >the iDOT team manager here for review. AOL has been rejecting mail from
> >lists with more than a threshold volume of bounces; this change started
> >quite recently and it may be causing the block in this instance.
> > I hope to have someone back in touch with you shortly.
> >Regards,
> >______________________________________
> >Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com> "Dances with lists"
> >AOL Internet Development, Outreach & Technology team
>
> So, what's the scoop? Some sheltie-list mail went through, but it appears
> that it's all being bounced again.
>
> Farokh
> >>
Since I have not received any kind of reply to my message from this morning, consider this your notification that I am going to start forwarding the bounced emails to the following addresses:
stevecase@aol.com
listmaster@aol.com
hi2jason@aol.com
postmaster@aol.com
This is a copy of the message I sent to Steve Case. I was told to send a message to you about this, so I'm simply sending you what I sent to Steve. I am also going to send you, in a seperate message, a more recent message I sent to Steve Case, listmaster, and Hi2Jason.
---- Original Message Follows ----
Steve,
I run a mailing list called sheltie-list from the address sheltie-list@mcf.com.
Recently AOL took the liberty of bouncing ALL messages from my mailing list to AOL subscribers, of which there are OVER 300.
I have received a lot of email from AOL subscribers asking me what the
problem is because AOL keeps telling them either that the domain mcf.com
has been flagged as a "junk email" domain or that it must be a problem on my
end.
Well, I have been in touch with listmaster@aol.com and forwarded the
messages that AOL's mail servers have been sending in the over ONE THOUSAND or so
bounced mail messages that I have recevied because of this problem. It has
been dragging on for over a week, and I am getting very frustrated about
it.
I'd like you to personally take part in this and either make sure that the problem is fixed, or I will simply tell all of the AOL subscribers that they will be removed from the mailing list, as well as set my list server to reject ANY subscription attempts from anyone at AOL for ALL of the mailing lists I run.
I know for a fact that one person has cancelled her AOL service and others have threatened to cancel their AOL service over this.
I will be sending a copy of this message to all of the AOL subscribers who are on my list so they know exactly where they stand.
I also expect AOL to credit my AOL account with lots of free time for having to deal with all of this. I have spent many hours answering email and dealing with the bounced mail messages.
And, just so you know, it is not simply an issue of all mcf.com mail being rejected, because I have a number of other lists at mcf.com which go through just fine, as well as personal email I send to people on AOL from my farokh@mcf.com address. Which is why I'm even more upset that your tech support people keep telling the AOL subscribers that they need to turn off the junk email filter. It has no effect!
I eagerly await your reply.
This message was originally sent Tues, 6/3/97 in the morning. Please note that unless I hear back from SOMEONE in the next few hours (ie by about 10:00pm ET on Tues 6/3/97), I will put my forwarding filter into effect, and I will add this address to the list. I now have over 2000 bounced email messages, starting from 5/26.
---- Original Message Follows ----
The following are quotes from messages I have received from listmaster@aol.com and hi2jason@aol.com. The message from hi2jason is from 5/31/97 and from listmaster is 5/30/97.
I have heard nothing back from anyone about the problem, other than the 1800 bounced messages from AOL and the 107 messages that I have received from various AOL members asking me why they are not receiving the list.
If this is not resolved VERY VERY SOON, and I do NOT hear back from someone, I will simply set up my email reader to forward to YOU (all three of you) the bounced messages that are coming back to me. Maybe that will get a response?
>Hi.
>
>You don't know me. My name is Jason and I work for America Online. I got a
>call from Roberta (I don't remember her last name) a few days ago to cancel
>her account. She was frustrated that she couldn't receive her sheltie-list
>mail. Her email address is xxx@aol.com. I thought, from what she told
>me, that this might be a problem because this mail was sent out with a
>listserv. She sent me your letter and confirmed some of what I thought.
>
>I told Roberta that I would try to figure out where the problem was coming
>from. Not only for her, but that would help all the other AOL members on
>your list also. I thought there might be a block somewhere that was stopping
>this going out specifically because it is a listserv. Normal email wouldn't
>be blocked. We both thought that your list might perhaps be on a list we
>have called Preferred Mail. It is simply a way to block certain forms of
>junk email. I checked but you're not on it. Your list is actually actively
>subscribed to also, which wouldn't make any sense if that was the case. Can
>your mail be routed through a server that is on the list perhaps?
>
>Any info you could send to me about what possible blocks there could be would
>be greatly appreciated. I'll get in contact with the technical dept. here
>and see what I can come up with. I'm really interested in getting this
>sorted out.
>
>Thank You,
>Jason
and
>
>Hi Farokh,
> Your contact person for this problem is Scott Crain of AOL's iDOT team. I've
>forwarded him your earlier message and am copying him on this reply so he's
>aware of the situation. Scott is in contact with operations and is thus the
>best person to work with on the rejection problem.
> I'm advising the AOL members asking about the Sheltie list that we're
>working on the problem.
> Regards,
> Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com>
>
>-------------
>
>In a message dated 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT, you write:
>
><< Subj: Re: Sheltie list/AOL
> Date: 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT
> From: farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
> To: ListMaster@aol.com
>
> >Dear Farokh,
> > Thanks for your note. I wrote your subscribers that AOL resumed
> >accepting source-routed email in mid-month, because that was the prior
> >issue that involved quite a few lists, and I wanted to eliminate any
> >settings from your end from consideration.
> > Since you've forwarded the rejection messages, I can forward them on to
> >the iDOT team manager here for review. AOL has been rejecting mail from
> >lists with more than a threshold volume of bounces; this change started
> >quite recently and it may be causing the block in this instance.
> > I hope to have someone back in touch with you shortly.
> >Regards,
> >______________________________________
> >Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com> "Dances with lists"
> >AOL Internet Development, Outreach & Technology team
>
> So, what's the scoop? Some sheltie-list mail went through, but it appears
> that it's all being bounced again.
>
> Farokh
> >>
Hi Farokh.
I haven't been able to come up with any solutions to the problem here at the call center in Oklahoma. Noone here can give me a definite answer; nothing that I would be able to use for someone on the phone. The technical department here really only deals with problems individual members have. I can only assume by the email you sent to me today that Scott Crain from AOL's IDOT team will be getting in touch with you. I will email the lady I talked to and let her know you are in correspondence with them. If you find out any more info from Dave Phillips or Scott Crain, I would appreciate knowing it.
Jason Couey
MS Representative
First off, you can stop forwarding all your bounces to us. If you'd sent us one of them to start with, when we'd asked, then I could have diagnosed your problem in seconds, as I have with the message below.
Your list of AOL addresses has too many bad addresses in it, and is causing your list address to be blocked by our spam safeguards.
You need to contact Jay@aol.com, and inquire how he would like your list of names, so that he can clean it, and fix the problem for you. Note, this could have all been avoided should you have been cleaning out bouncing addresses all along.
Regards,
Scott
--
Scott Crain
AOL/GNN Postmaster
Internet Development Outreach & Technology Group
America Online, Inc.
email: scrain@aol.net
On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Farokh Irani wrote:
> From:
> To: Postmaster@pc099.computeroutlet.com
> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:53:48 -0400
> Subject: Undeliverable Mail
> Mime-Version: 1.0
>
> The following message could not be sent to xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
> ', 'xxx@aol.com' and 'xxx@aol.com at host aol.com (198.81.19.174)
> because the sender address was rejected.
> 550 <sheltie-list@mcf.com>... Delivery not authorized, message refused.
>
> ----Unsent message follows----
>
> Received: from liststar.mcf.com (165.254.158.8) by
pc099.computeroutlet.com
> with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 2.0b9); Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:36:26
-0400
> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:30:34 EDT
> Message-Id: <19970603.202902.4335.25.xxx@juno.com>
> From: xxx@juno.com (Not Home)
> Subject: SS-Bree:Care: RB Action, Vet Work
> To: Sheltie-list@mcf.com
> Precedence: Bulk
> Errors-to: sheltie-list-request@mcf.com
> X-URL: http://restarea.mcf.com/sheltiehomepage/
> X-Headings: SS-Attn:,SS-Care:,SS-Beha:,SS-Bree:,SS-Chat:,SS-Conf:
> X-Headings: SS-Hist:,SS-Perf:,SS-Resc:,SS-Ads:,SS-Natl:
>
>
> On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:07:29 -0400 Kurt L Sletterdahl
> <xxx@compuserve.com> writes:
>
> >And as I pointed out privately, she is not as perfect as your message
> suggests.
>
> Then might I ask why you bought a dog from her in the first place?
>
> Erika Plajer
> South Bend, In
> xxx@Juno.com
>
>
> Farokh
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out my WWW server at http://restarea.mcf.com/
> Suzuki Cavalcade/VX800 rider; list owner for suzuki-l, sheltie-list,
others.
> Send mail to listserv@mcf.com and put "help" in the body (without the
quotes).
> Or check out http://restarea.mcf.com/pages/lists/listserv.html
>
>
>First off, you can stop forwarding all your bounces to us. If you'd sent
>us one of them to start with, when we'd asked, then I could have diagnosed
>your problem in seconds, as I have with the message below.
Only one person ever asked me to forward a bounced email, which I did. I received ABSOLUTELY NO responses from anyone else. Here is the message I received on the 30th of May. Note that Dave Phillips did not bother to tell me what your email address was.
>Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 15:35:48 -0400 (EDT)
>From: ListMaster@aol.com
>To: farokh@mcf.com
>cc: scrain@aol.net
>Subject: Re: Sheltie list/AOL
>
>Hi Farokh,
> Your contact person for this problem is Scott Crain of AOL's iDOT team. I've
>forwarded him your earlier message and am copying him on this reply so he's
>aware of the situation. Scott is in contact with operations and is thus the
>best person to work with on the rejection problem.
> I'm advising the AOL members asking about the Sheltie list that we're
>working on the problem.
> Regards,
> Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com>
>
>-------------
>
>In a message dated 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT, you write:
>
><< Subj: Re: Sheltie list/AOL
> Date: 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT
> From: farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
> To: ListMaster@aol.com
>
> >Dear Farokh,
> > Thanks for your note. I wrote your subscribers that AOL resumed
> >accepting source-routed email in mid-month, because that was the prior
> >issue that involved quite a few lists, and I wanted to eliminate any
> >settings from your end from consideration.
> > Since you've forwarded the rejection messages, I can forward them on to
> >the iDOT team manager here for review. AOL has been rejecting mail from
> >lists with more than a threshold volume of bounces; this change started
> >quite recently and it may be causing the block in this instance.
> > I hope to have someone back in touch with you shortly.
> >Regards,
> >______________________________________
> >Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com> "Dances with lists"
> >AOL Internet Development, Outreach & Technology team
>
> So, what's the scoop? Some sheltie-list mail went through, but it appears
> that it's all being bounced again.
>
> Farokh
> >>
Note that in his message he states that "Since you've forwarded the rejection messages, I can forward them on to the iDOT team manager here for review."
So, don't tell me that I didn't forward the bounced message. I also sent a message WARNING those involved that I would start forwarding the bounced messages, but once again, I got NO RESPONSE. I have OVER 2400 (yes, that's TWO THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED) bounced email message, and OVER 100 private emails from sheltie-list subscribers at AOL asking about the mess AOL has created. This has been a MAJOR waste of my time.
>
>Your list of AOL addresses has too many bad addresses in it, and is
>causing your list address to be blocked by our spam safeguards.
>
>You need to contact Jay@aol.com, and inquire how he would like your list
>of names, so that he can clean it, and fix the problem for you. Note, this
>could have all been avoided should you have been cleaning out bouncing
>addresses all along.
Then explain to me why when I MANUALLY send a message to the SAME list of addresses from the address farokh@mcf.com, it goes through fine?
As usual, the response from AOL is underwhelming.
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott
>
>--
>Scott Crain
>AOL/GNN Postmaster
>Internet Development Outreach & Technology Group
>America Online, Inc.
>email: scrain@aol.net
>
>On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Farokh Irani wrote:
>
>> From:
>> To: Postmaster@pc099.computeroutlet.com
>> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:53:48 -0400
>> Subject: Undeliverable Mail
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>>
>> The following message could not be sent to xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>> ', 'xxx@aol.com' and 'xxx@aol.com at host aol.com (198.81.19.174)
>> because the sender address was rejected.
>> 550 <sheltie-list@mcf.com>... Delivery not authorized, message refused.
>>
>> ----Unsent message follows----
>>
>> Received: from liststar.mcf.com (165.254.158.8) by
pc099.computeroutlet.com
>> with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 2.0b9); Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:36:26 -0400
>> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:30:34 EDT
>> Message-Id: <19970603.202902.4335.25.xxx@juno.com>
>> From: xxx@juno.com (Not Home)
>> Subject: SS-Bree:Care: RB Action, Vet Work
>> To: Sheltie-list@mcf.com
>> Precedence: Bulk
>> Errors-to: sheltie-list-request@mcf.com
>> X-URL: http://restarea.mcf.com/sheltiehomepage/
>> X-Headings: SS-Attn:,SS-Care:,SS-Beha:,SS-Bree:,SS-Chat:,SS-Conf:
>> X-Headings: SS-Hist:,SS-Perf:,SS-Resc:,SS-Ads:,SS-Natl:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:07:29 -0400 Kurt L Sletterdahl
>> <xxx@compuserve.com> writes:
>>
>> >And as I pointed out privately, she is not as perfect as your message
>> suggests.
>>
>> Then might I ask why you bought a dog from her in the first place?
>>
>> Erika Plajer
>> South Bend, In
>> xxx@Juno.com
>>
>>
>> Farokh
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out my WWW server at http://restarea.mcf.com/
>> Suzuki Cavalcade/VX800 rider; list owner for suzuki-l, sheltie-list, others.
>> Send mail to listserv@mcf.com and put "help" in the body (without the quotes).
>> Or check out http://restarea.mcf.com/pages/lists/listserv.html
>>
>>
Dear Sir,
I have been in touch with several of your subscribers, and there is some concern on their part as to their failure to receive one of your mail list through their AOL membership.
As I am sure you are concerned about this problem, as are we, please contact me by e-mail and advise a phone number at which a technical supervisor may contact you to help get to the basis of this problem.
I thank you for your time.
>Dear Sir,
>
> I have been in touch with several of your subscribers, and there is
some
>concern on their part as to their failure to receive one of your mail list
>through their AOL membership.
>
> As I am sure you are concerned about this problem, as are we, please
>contact me by e-mail and advise a phone number at which a technical
>supervisor may contact you to help get to the basis of this problem.
>
> I thank you for your time.
Feel free to call me at xxx-xxx-xxx.
However, be aware that this problem has been occuring for over a week, and I have had a few (very!) email conversations with various AOL people with no resolution to the problem in sight. Specifically, I have emailed hi2jason, listmaster, postmaster, stevecase and inetemail. Most recently, I received email from Scott Crain (pmd3@aol.net), who had very little to offer other than to claim the problem is my fault. Needless to say, I'm less than impressed.
Now, maybe if Steve Case calls me WITH a tech on the phone at the same time, I'll consider that SOMETHING is BEING DONE.
So, I'm still waiting to a response to my message to you from 1:30pm today (Wed, 6/4/97).
Once again, if I don't hear something soon, I'll simply start forwarding the bounces. Again. That seemed to get some kind of response.
I gave you instructions to forward the list of AOL members on your service to Jay@aol.com. CC: that to scrain@aol.net to ensure that someone gets it.
If you continue to relay the bounces here, I will consider it an attack, and will enact measures to prevent it.
Regards,
Scott
--
Scott Crain
AOL/GNN Postmaster
Internet Development Outreach & Technology Group
America Online, Inc.
email: scrain@aol.net
On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Farokh Irani wrote:
> So, I'm still waiting to a response to my message to you from 1:30pm today
> (Wed, 6/4/97).
>
> Once again, if I don't hear something soon, I'll simply start forwarding
> the bounces. Again. That seemed to get some kind of response.
>
>
>
I am writing to you in response to a message from xxx@aol.com concerning AOL's arbitrary reject of messages from my mailing list sheltie-list@mcf.com
I have already sent email to stevecase@aol.com, "Scott Crain (AOL Postmaster)" <pmd3@aol.net>, listmaster@aol.com and inetemail@aol.com, with little result. I don't know if you'll have any better luck, but here goes. The following is a copy of the message I sent to Steve Case:
---- Original Message Follows ----
Steve,
I run a mailing list called sheltie-list from the address sheltie-list@mcf.com.
Recently AOL took the liberty of bouncing ALL messages from my mailing list to AOL subscribers, of which there are OVER 300.
I have received a lot of email from AOL subscribers asking me what the problem is because AOL keeps telling them either that the domain mcf.com has been flagged as a "junk email" domain or that it must be a problem on my end. Well, I have been in touch with listmaster@aol.com and forwarded the messages that AOL's mail servers have been sending in the over ONE THOUSAND or so bounced mail messages that I have recevied because of this problem. It has been dragging on for over a week, and I am getting very frustrated about it.
I'd like you to personally take part in this and either make sure that the problem is fixed, or I will simply tell all of the AOL subscribers that they will be removed from the mailing list, as well as set my list server to reject ANY subscription attempts from anyone at AOL for ALL of the mailing lists I run.
I know for a fact that one person has cancelled her AOL service and others have threatened to cancel their AOL service over this.
I will be sending a copy of this message to all of the AOL subscribers who are on my list so they know exactly where they stand.
I also expect AOL to credit my AOL account with lots of free time for having to deal with all of this. I have spent many hours answering email and dealing with the bounced mail messages.
And, just so you know, it is not simply an issue of all mcf.com mail being rejected, because I have a number of other lists at mcf.com which go through just fine, as well as personal email I send to people on AOL from my farokh@mcf.com address. Which is why I'm even more upset that your tech support people keep telling the AOL subscribers that they need to turn off the junk email filter. It has no effect!
I eagerly await your reply.
---- End Original message ----
The following is the message sent to me by xxx@aol.com
--- begin forwarded text
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:25:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: xxx@aol.com
To: farokh@mcf.com
Subject: Prob w/AOL and the Sheltie List
Dear Farokh,
We have finally gotten in touch with someone at AOL who seems like they are willing to help Her name is Nancy and is at WriteNancy@aol.com . She asked me to send her the information you had sent to all of us Sheltie List exiles, regarding your attempts to contact AOL about this problem. For some reason my mail box will not let me access, anything past 6/1, so I am unable to provide her this information. If you still have this information available would you please send it to her, along with a copy of a message that has been bounced back with the error message. We exiles at AOL are still hoping that this can be resolved. Thank you for all your help and concern!
Laurie Olson
Layria Shelties
xxx@aol.com
--- end forwarded text
>I gave you instructions to forward the list of AOL members on your service
>to Jay@aol.com. CC: that to scrain@aol.net to ensure that someone gets it.
I'll forward the list, but what will you have to say when Jay finds NO PROBLEMS WITH THE LIST?
In addition, you have not BOTHERED TO REPLY TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION:
>>
>>Your list of AOL addresses has too many bad addresses in it, and is
>>causing your list address to be blocked by our spam safeguards.
>>
>>You need to contact Jay@aol.com, and inquire how he would like your list
>>of names, so that he can clean it, and fix the problem for you. Note,
this
>>could have all been avoided should you have been cleaning out bouncing
>>addresses all along.
>
>Then explain to me why when I MANUALLY send a message to the SAME list of
addresses from the address farokh@mcf.com, it goes through fine?
>
So, what's the ANSWER TO MY QUESTION? Can you EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE EXACT SAME LIST SENT MANUALLY DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM GOING TO AOL? What is so difficult to comprehend?
>
>If you continue to relay the bounces here, I will consider it an attack,
>and will enact measures to prevent it.
Oh, very nice. Is that how you treat people? I have been MORE than patient, and I've gotten nothing but BS from AOL. I think I'll be cancelling *MY* AOL account that I've had since very early in AOL's life, back when it was a Mac only service.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott
>
>--
>Scott Crain
>AOL/GNN Postmaster
>Internet Development Outreach & Technology Group
>America Online, Inc.
>email: scrain@aol.net
>
>On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Farokh Irani wrote:
>
>> So, I'm still waiting to a response to my message to you from 1:30pm today
>> (Wed, 6/4/97).
>>
>> Once again, if I don't hear something soon, I'll simply start forwarding
>> the bounces. Again. That seemed to get some kind of response.
>>
>>
>>
I have sent, as per a request by Scott Crain, a list of AOL subscribers of one of my mailing lists.
I will hold AOL RESPONSIBLE if this list is used IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN TO DETERMINE WHY sheltie-list@mcf.com is being blocked.
Here is the supposedly bad list of AOL addresses. I WOULD LIKE TO BE INCLUDED IN ANY AND ALL CORRESPONDANCE YOU HAVE WITH ANYONE CONCERNING THIS LIST.
In ADDITION, THIS LIST IS TO BE TREATED AS CONFIDENTIAL. You DO NOT want me finding out that this list was treat in any other way! And, when you discover that there is no problem with this list, I EXPECT YOU TO TAKE ACTION TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
<list of aol subscribers removed from this HTML file>
> >I gave you instructions to forward the list of AOL members on your service
> >to Jay@aol.com. CC: that to scrain@aol.net to ensure that someone gets it.
>
> I'll forward the list, but what will you have to say when Jay finds NO
> PROBLEMS WITH THE LIST?
Your list wasn't blocked for no reason. It was blocked because of excessive bounces. This means that you had excessive bad addresses in it.
>
> In addition, you have not BOTHERED TO REPLY TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION:
> >>
> >>Your list of AOL addresses has too many bad addresses in it, and is
> >>causing your list address to be blocked by our spam safeguards.
> >>
> >>You need to contact Jay@aol.com, and inquire how he would like your
list
> >>of names, so that he can clean it, and fix the problem for you. Note,
this
> >>could have all been avoided should you have been cleaning out bouncing
> >>addresses all along.
> >
> >Then explain to me why when I MANUALLY send a message to the SAME list
of
> >addresses from the address farokh@mcf.com, it goes through fine?
> >
Because excessive bounce blocking hasn't been enabled for a couple days, due to hardware changes?
>
> So, what's the ANSWER TO MY QUESTION? Can you EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE EXACT
> SAME LIST SENT MANUALLY DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM GOING TO AOL? What is so
> difficult to comprehend?
>
> >
> >If you continue to relay the bounces here, I will consider it an attack,
> >and will enact measures to prevent it.
>
> Oh, very nice. Is that how you treat people? I have been MORE than
patient,
> and I've gotten nothing but BS from AOL. I think I'll be cancelling *MY*
> AOL account that I've had since very early in AOL's life, back when it
was
> a Mac only service.
> >
When your 72 mails impede one of my colleagues ability to do his job, then yes, I consider it an attack. How would you like it if I bounced all the bounces I get back? I think my point is clear.
>> >I gave you instructions to forward the list of AOL members on your service
>> >to Jay@aol.com. CC: that to scrain@aol.net to ensure that someone gets it.
>>
>> I'll forward the list, but what will you have to say when Jay finds NO
>> PROBLEMS WITH THE LIST?
>
>Your list wasn't blocked for no reason. It was blocked because of
>excessive bounces. This means that you had excessive bad addresses in it.
According to what? Why wasn't I contacted with this information? Or is AOL so arrogant to think that they can act without considering any of the consequences of AOL's actions?
>
>>
>> In addition, you have not BOTHERED TO REPLY TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION:
>> >>
>> >>Your list of AOL addresses has too many bad addresses in it, and is
>> >>causing your list address to be blocked by our spam safeguards.
>> >>
>> >>You need to contact Jay@aol.com, and inquire how he would like your
list
>> >>of names, so that he can clean it, and fix the problem for you. Note,
this
>> >>could have all been avoided should you have been cleaning out bouncing
>> >>addresses all along.
>> >
>> >Then explain to me why when I MANUALLY send a message to the SAME list
of
>> >addresses from the address farokh@mcf.com, it goes through fine?
>> >
>
>Because excessive bounce blocking hasn't been enabled for a couple days,
>due to hardware changes?
Um, no that makes NO sense, because messages from sheltie-list@mcf.com ARE
STILL GETTING BOUNCED, but messages from farokh@mcf.com do not. I now have
over 2700 bounced messages, of which, you have received only a VERY few.
Here's the latest one I have. Note the date/time of the message, today at
7pm:
>The following message could not be sent to xxx@aol.com',
'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com',
'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com' and 'xxx@aol.com at host aol.com (198.81.19.148)
>because the sender address was rejected.
>550 <sheltie-list@mcf.com>... Delivery not authorized, message refused.
>
> ----Unsent message follows----
>
>Received: from liststar.mcf.com (165.254.158.8) by
pc099.computeroutlet.com
> with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 2.0b9); Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:04:32
-0400
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:01:08 -0700
>Message-Id: <B0000102752@battleship.excell.com>
>From: "Gary Whitmore" <xxx@excell.com>
>Subject: SS-CONF: PERF: Political Judges
>To: <sheltie-list@mcf.com>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Precedence: Bulk
>Errors-to: sheltie-list-request@mcf.com
>X-URL: http://restarea.mcf.com/sheltiehomepage/
>X-Headings: SS-Attn:,SS-Care:,SS-Beha:,SS-Bree:,SS-Chat:,SS-Conf:
>X-Headings: SS-Hist:,SS-Perf:,SS-Resc:,SS-Ads:,SS-Natl:
>
>
>>
>> So, what's the ANSWER TO MY QUESTION? Can you EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE
EXACT
>> SAME LIST SENT MANUALLY DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM GOING TO AOL? What is so
>> difficult to comprehend?
>>
>> >
>> >If you continue to relay the bounces here, I will consider it an
attack,
>> >and will enact measures to prevent it.
>>
>> Oh, very nice. Is that how you treat people? I have been MORE than
patient,
>> and I've gotten nothing but BS from AOL. I think I'll be cancelling *MY*
>> AOL account that I've had since very early in AOL's life, back when it
was
>> a Mac only service.
>> >
>
>When your 72 mails impede one of my colleagues ability to do his job, then
>yes, I consider it an attack. How would you like it if I bounced all the
>bounces I get back? I think my point is clear.
What do you THINK THAT AOL's arbitrary bouncing of all messages only ONE of my lists does to me? I have over 12 MEG of disk space tied up in bounced mail messages, and I have been trying FOR OVER A WEEK to get someone to deal with it. It wasn't until I started forwarding the bounces that ANY action was taken, even if it was threatening. It seems that no one even took my threat to forward the bounced mail seriously.
I trust I've made my point clear?
Dear farokh,
I am responding to your recent e-mail message on behalf of Steve Case.
Thank you for taking the time to write to us.
In an effort to protect the interests of our members, and in response to the large volume of complaints AOL has received from our members regarding unsolicited commercial email, AOL has set PreferredMail (keyword PREFERRED MAIL) to protect your account from receiving email from certain junk email sites. In order to identify these sites, we are asking members to forward junk email to the TOSSpam mailbox. This list is updated regularly.
Please be assured that AOL does not provide your email address to any junk emailer. These names are collected through a variety of methods: capturing screen names in chat rooms, on bulletin boards, from the Usenet, and through random searches of our Member Directory. America Online is working on many fronts (including litigation in a Federal District Court) to put an end to junk email.
Please let us know if we can offer any future support.
--------------------
From: farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
To: hi2jason@aol.com, listmaster@aol.com, stevecase@aol.com, postmaster@aol.com
Since I have not received any kind of reply to my message from this
morning, consider this your notification that I am going to start
forwarding the bounced emails to the following addresses:
stevecase@aol.com
listmaster@aol.com
hi2jason@aol.com
postmaster@aol.com
Farokh
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my WWW server at http://restarea.mcf.com/
Suzuki Cavalcade/VX800 rider; list owner for suzuki-l, sheltie-list, others.
Send mail to listserv@mcf.com and put "help" in the body (without the quotes).
Or check out http://restarea.mcf.com/pages/lists/listserv.html
Farokh - This is one response that I got from AOL in regards to the problem
with the sheltie list (I've sent the same basic question to various "help"
addresses). I'll give it a try and see if it works. If it does, it can be
forwarded to other AOL folks on the sheltie list. holly
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: techprob@aol.net
To: xxx@aol.com
Date: 97-06-05 01:44:30 EDT
Dear xxx,
I am writing to you in response to your recent email to America Online.
If the return message that the sender receives is "refused" then the domain name is being blocked. The problem is that AOL received large amounts of "junk" or "spam" email from someone on this domain name. The addresses of domains that send this type of email to AOL members are added to the Preferred Mail, Blocked List. Because the Preferred Mail, Blocked Sites list is not updated daily to remove domains from the list, it does not immediately display these sites when added.
The Listserv mail not being delivered is either a problem with the listserve host or the domain is being blocked. In either case a member can start receiving email or the listserve. There are two methods of setting your mail preferences to receive this email. The first is by signing onto the master account screen name and setting the Preferred Mail Controls to allow email from the Blocked Sites List. To set your Preferred Mail Controls go to Keyword PREFERRED MAIL.
Click on the checkbox next to the "I want mass e-mail solicitations from all of these sites.
Click on the OK button.
This will allow email from all of the sites on the "Blocked Sites List".
The second is by signing onto the master account screen name and going to Keyword MAIL CONTROLS.
Click on the "Go To Mail Controls" button
Select the screen name whose mail controls you wish to modify Click on the "Edit" button
Here you can select several options that will allow you to control from which email addresses you receive, or do not receive email.
Allow all mail - This will allow all email to be received except the "Blocked Sites" list in the Preferred Mail.
Block all mail - This will block all email sent to this address.
Allow only email addresses in the list to the right - This allows the member to "Add or Remove" addresses in the list. Email will only be received from these addresses.
Block email addresses in the list to the right - This allows the member to "Add or Remove" addresses in the list. Email will be received from all addresses except those in this list and the Preferred Mail "Blocked Sites" list.
Select either the "Allow only email addresses in the list to the right" or
the "Block email addresses in the list to the right". Whichever one best
fits
their needs.
Enter the addresses are entered in the list.
Click OK.
Thank you for using America Online. We hope that you enjoy our service.
A. Turner
The Techmail Department
America Online, Inc.
*Please press FORWARD when replying to this email*
--------------------
When is my sheltie-list mail going to be accepted again?? It has been a week. There are many AOL subscribers to the list who are getting at least as irritated as I am....the listserver has written to AOL, apparently without result....do we all need to find a new internet server??????
The list about which I speak:
SHELTIE-LIST
Our host is Farokh Irani (farokh@mcf.com)
Dear farokh@mcf.com,
I am responding on behalf of Steve Case. Thank you for taking the time to
write to us.
I am requesting that you discontinue the forwarding of multiple emails to STEVECASE, which is considered being mail bombed, and a violation of our online rules and guidelines.
I apologize for difficulties you may have been having. However, if you are encountering a problem with our postmaster and/or delivery of email, please continue working out the problem with that department.
Future occurences of this type of behavior will not be tolerated.
Sincerely,
Meghan M.
Office of the Chairman
Dear farokh,
I am responding on behalf of Steve Case. Thank you for taking the time to
write to us.
I have checked the domains that we block due to spam problems, and your domain is not included in that list. We have encountered a similar experience to what you mention regarding the listserv. Below is how we handled the last issue:
America Online recognizes the importance of various groups' listservs. We are very aware of the invaluable service they provide. However, the listserv to which you subscribe (or in your case, administer) does not have a valid domain, which means we are unable to return a message to them should there be some sort of problem with delivering the message to one or more of the recipients. Our system will not accept mail from invalid domains.
As the administrator of the list, you will need to make the proper adjustments from your end (through your actual domain postmaster). After the necessary changes have been made, we will once again be able to accept mail from these listservs.
I hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if you have any further questions.
I am not sure what our postmaster has told you, but this is how we handled the inability to receive one other type of listserv.
Unfortuntately, this is the only information that has been made available to us.
We appreciate your cooperation and patience in this matter.
Sincerely,
Meghan McNabb
Office of the Chairman
Oh, and AOL's arbitrary reject of THOUSANDS of list messages isn't mail bombing me?
>I apologize for difficulties you may have been having. However, if you are
>encountering a problem with our postmaster and/or delivery of email, please
>continue working out the problem with that department.
Except that I GET NO REPSONSE FROM ANYONE. And I ONLY GOT A RESPONSE WHEN I STARTED FORWARDING THE MAIL AOL WAS BOUNCING.
>
>Future occurences of this type of behavior will not be tolerated.
Oh, believe me, next time this happens, I will simply remove ALL AOL subscribers from ALL of my mailing lists and REJECT anyone attempting to subscribe from AOL.
>Dear farokh,
>I am responding on behalf of Steve Case. Thank you for taking the time to
>write to us.
>
>I have checked the domains that we block due to spam problems, and your
>domain is not included in that list. We have encountered a similar
>experience to what you mention regarding the listserv. Below is how we
>handled the last issue:
>
>America Online recognizes the importance of various groups' listservs. We
>are very aware of the invaluable service they provide. However, the
listserv
>to which you subscribe (or in your case, administer) does not have a valid
>domain, which means we are unable to return a message to them should
there be
>some sort of problem with delivering the message to one or more of the
>recipients. Our system will not accept mail from invalid domains.
>
>As the administrator of the list, you will need to make the proper
>adjustments from your end (through your actual domain postmaster). After
the
>necessary changes have been made, we will once again be able to accept
mail
>from these listservs.
>
>I hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if you have
>any further questions.
>
>I am not sure what our postmaster has told you, but this is how we handled
>the inability to receive one other type of listserv.
>
>Unfortuntately, this is the only information that has been made available
to
>us.
>
>We appreciate your cooperation and patience in this matter.
This is such a complete crock, it's not even funny. Just HOW THE HELL DO
YOU THINK I WOUND UP WITH OVER 3000 BOUNCED EMAIL MESSAGES? You are all
hopeless.
I am still waiting a reply to the following message, as well as a status on just what AOL is doing about its problem. As usual, I have heard nothing, but now have OVER 3000 BOUNCED EMAILS. Shall I start forwarding again?
>> >I gave you instructions to forward the list of AOL members on your
service
>> >to Jay@aol.com. CC: that to scrain@aol.net to ensure that someone gets
it.
>>
>> I'll forward the list, but what will you have to say when Jay finds NO
>> PROBLEMS WITH THE LIST?
>
>Your list wasn't blocked for no reason. It was blocked because of
>excessive bounces. This means that you had excessive bad addresses in
it.
According to what? Why wasn't I contacted with this information? Or is AOL so arrogant to think that they can act without considering any of the consequences of AOL's actions?
>
>>
>> In addition, you have not BOTHERED TO REPLY TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION:
>> >>
>> >>Your list of AOL addresses has too many bad addresses in it, and is
>> >>causing your list address to be blocked by our spam safeguards.
>> >>
>> >>You need to contact Jay@aol.com, and inquire how he would like your
list
>> >>of names, so that he can clean it, and fix the problem for you. Note,
this
>> >>could have all been avoided should you have been cleaning out bouncing
>> >>addresses all along.
>> >
>> >Then explain to me why when I MANUALLY send a message to the SAME list
of
>> >addresses from the address farokh@mcf.com, it goes through fine?
>> >
>
>Because excessive bounce blocking hasn't been enabled for a couple days,
>due to hardware changes?
Um, no that makes NO sense, because messages from sheltie-list@mcf.com ARE
STILL GETTING BOUNCED, but messages from farokh@mcf.com do not. I now have
over 2700 bounced messages, of which, you have received only a VERY few.
Here's the latest one I have. Note the date/time of the message, today at
7pm:
>The following message could not be sent to xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com' and 'xxx@aol.com at host aol.com (198.81.19.148)
>because the sender address was rejected.
>550 <sheltie-list@mcf.com>... Delivery not authorized, message refused.
>
> ----Unsent message follows----
>
>Received: from liststar.mcf.com (165.254.158.8) by
pc099.computeroutlet.com
> with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 2.0b9); Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:04:32
-0400
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:01:08 -0700
>Message-Id: <B0000102752@battleship.excell.com>
>From: "Gary Whitmore" <xxx@excell.com>
>Subject: SS-CONF: PERF: Political Judges
>To: <sheltie-list@mcf.com>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Precedence: Bulk
>Errors-to: sheltie-list-request@mcf.com
>X-URL: http://restarea.mcf.com/sheltiehomepage/
>X-Headings: SS-Attn:,SS-Care:,SS-Beha:,SS-Bree:,SS-Chat:,SS-Conf:
>X-Headings: SS-Hist:,SS-Perf:,SS-Resc:,SS-Ads:,SS-Natl:
>
>
>>
>> So, what's the ANSWER TO MY QUESTION? Can you EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE
EXACT
>> SAME LIST SENT MANUALLY DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM GOING TO AOL? What is so
>> difficult to comprehend?
>>
>> >
>> >If you continue to relay the bounces here, I will consider it an
attack,
>> >and will enact measures to prevent it.
>>
>> Oh, very nice. Is that how you treat people? I have been MORE than
patient,
>> and I've gotten nothing but BS from AOL. I think I'll be cancelling *MY*
>> AOL account that I've had since very early in AOL's life, back when it
was
>> a Mac only service.
>> >
>
>When your 72 mails impede one of my colleagues ability to do his job, then
>yes, I consider it an attack. How would you like it if I bounced all the
>bounces I get back? I think my point is clear.
What do you THINK THAT AOL's arbitrary bouncing of all messages only ONE of my lists does to me? I have over 12 MEG of disk space tied up in bounced mail messages, and I have been trying FOR OVER A WEEK to get someone to deal with it. It wasn't until I started forwarding the bounces that ANY action was taken, even if it was threatening. It seems that no one even took my threat to forward the bounced mail seriously.
I trust I've made my point clear?
I'm writing to you because I have heard NOTHING from Scott Crain concerning the status of the rejection of messages from sheltie-list@mcf.com.
It has been two days since I sent the requested list of "bad" AOL addresses, which was supposed to be the cause of AOL's rejection of all the sheltie-list@mcf.com email, but I have not recevied ANY reply from either Scott or Jay@aol.com, to whom I was told to actually send the list.
I am very VERY unhappy with the way AOL has been treating this issue. My messages to Steve Case have been completely ignored, as were my messages to anyone else at AOL UNTIL I started forward the bounced emails that I was getting. Only then did I get a response, and those were very rude.
I have received HUNDREDS of email messages from AOL users who are subscribed to my list telling me that they too are being ignored. What kind of service is that?
And just WHAT is the status of this whole sordid mess?
At 15.35 -0400 5/30/97, ListMaster@aol.com wrote:
>Hi Farokh,
> Your contact person for this problem is Scott Crain of AOL's iDOT team.
I've
>forwarded him your earlier message and am copying him on this reply so
he's
>aware of the situation. Scott is in contact with operations and is thus
the
>best person to work with on the rejection problem.
> I'm advising the AOL members asking about the Sheltie list that we're
>working on the problem.
> Regards,
> Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com>
>
>-------------
>
>In a message dated 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT, you write:
>
><< Subj: Re: Sheltie list/AOL
> Date: 97-05-30 10:07:13 EDT
> From: farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
> To: ListMaster@aol.com
>
> >Dear Farokh,
> > Thanks for your note. I wrote your subscribers that AOL resumed
> >accepting source-routed email in mid-month, because that was the prior
> >issue that involved quite a few lists, and I wanted to eliminate any
> >settings from your end from consideration.
> > Since you've forwarded the rejection messages, I can forward them on to
> >the iDOT team manager here for review. AOL has been rejecting mail from
> >lists with more than a threshold volume of bounces; this change started
> >quite recently and it may be causing the block in this instance.
> > I hope to have someone back in touch with you shortly.
> >Regards,
> >______________________________________
> >Dave Phillips <listmaster@aol.com> "Dances with lists"
> >AOL Internet Development, Outreach & Technology team
>
> So, what's the scoop? Some sheltie-list mail went through, but it appears
> that it's all being bounced again.
>
> Farokh
> >>
I have bcc'd all the AOL subscribers who were affected by AOL's arbitrary rejecting of sheltie-list email.
Apparently AOL has fixed whatever the problem was, but I've not had a SINGLE message sent to me with the status of things, and no reply AT ALL to any of my requests for status. So, I suppose that it's completely possible that AOL may start rejecting the messages at any time again. If that does happen, then I will remove all access from AOL subscribers. I will have no choice. I have ALMOST 3100 (that's THREE THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED, no typo there) messages totalling over 13 megabytes, of bounced email messages thanks to AOL, dating back to May 26, 1997.
You will notice that there are 5 AOL people who are receiving this message. Other than Steve Case, who I guess is too busy trading in his stock options to even bother responding to any email personally, these are the people who were "supposed" to handle the problem.
As I said, not one of them has bothered to 1) tell me that the problem has been dealt with or 2) explain exactly WHY the list email was set for rejection.
They made a claim that the list of subscribers had too many "bad" AOL addresses, except that the list I sent then is exactly the list I'm sending this (and previous) email to. Gee, guess that wasn't the problem, huh "AOL"?
So, anyway, all you sheltie-list folks, you can feel free to forward this message to anyone at AOL you think is appropriate, and ask them why email from the list was being rejected. Maybe you'll get an answer. If you do, please, forward it to me. I'd like to know what, if anything, AOL has to say. Of course, I won't be holding my breath.
One final note, if anyone would like to see the messages sent back and forth (what few I *did* get from AOL), drop me a note. I'll be putting together something with all the messages I have saved.
Farokh
I have to admit, I'm as puzzled as you expected. There are absolutely no invalid addresses on that list.
Our records show that the list was blocked on 5/24 at 09:20 EDT. Have you done any weeding since then? If not, we've obviously got a serious bug that needs fixing.
Jay Levitt
Manager, Mail Systems Group
AOL
>I have to admit, I'm as puzzled as you expected. There are absolutely no
>invalid addresses on that list.
>
>Our records show that the list was blocked on 5/24 at 09:20 EDT. Have you
>done any weeding since then? If not, we've obviously got a serious bug that
>needs fixing.
No, I have not done any serious weeding. I beleive I removed 3 or 4
address in the last week. Some were for full mailboxes, a couple for user
unknown.
Can you explain to me what criteria is used to determine when an address is blocked? IE what does it take? 10% invalid address sent 10 times? etc. Do you follow what I'm trying to get at?
>
>Jay Levitt
>Manager, Mail Systems Group
>AOL
Thanks for the info.
In a message dated 6/6/97 11:28:59 PM EST, farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
writes:
> It has been two days since I sent the requested list of "bad" AOL
> addresses, which was supposed to be the cause of AOL's rejection of all the
> sheltie-list@mcf.com email, but I have not recevied ANY reply from either
> Scott or Jay@aol.com, to whom I was told to actually send the list.
I apologize. I was out of town, and I didn't catch up on my e-mail till today. I already sent you a reply - I'm very puzzled as to how your list got on the blocked list.
Jay Levitt
Ah, then that explains it. I really do wish that SOMEONE else at AOL would have bothered to let me know that you were going to be out of town. Sigh.
Oh well, thanks for that bit of info.
>Jay Levitt
> As I said, not one of them has bothered to 1) tell me that the problem has
> been dealt with or 2) explain exactly WHY the list email was set for
> rejection.
Until you receive a cleaned list from Jay, then your problem is not solved, only deferred. It seems that your list in one mailing does not constitute enough to cause a block in be effected, however, a number of quick postings could do so again.
2: We do not list the criterion nor the reasons that addresses are blocked inbound to AOL, as this would give the spammers all tehy need to prevent from tripping our detectors, and that is not what we want. Our mail system's configuration is confidential. All you need to know is that your list was blocked because of excessive bad addresses.
>
> They made a claim that the list of subscribers had too many "bad" AOL
> addresses, except that the list I sent then is exactly the list I'm sending
> this (and previous) email to. Gee, guess that wasn't the problem, huh "AOL"?
Or there are other mitigating circumstances which you are not privy to, nor will you be informed of the status of AOL's internal mail-system. You have your answer, and it is the correct one.
Regards,
Scott
Except that I just received emails from Jay telling me 1) he was out of town for a couple of days, something no one else bothered to tell me, and that 2) there was nothing wrong with the list of addresses I sent him.
>
>2: We do not list the criterion nor the reasons that addresses are blocked
>inbound to AOL, as this would give the spammers all tehy need to prevent
>from tripping our detectors, and that is not what we want. Our mail
>system's configuration is confidential. All you need to know is that your
>list was blocked because of excessive bad addresses.
Ok, I'll accept your response. I have a passionate dislike of spam email, and respect your postion on that.
>
>
>>
>> They made a claim that the list of subscribers had too many "bad" AOL
>> addresses, except that the list I sent then is exactly the list I'm sending
>> this (and previous) email to. Gee, guess that wasn't the problem, huh "AOL"?
>
>Or there are other mitigating circumstances which you are not privy to,
>nor will you be informed of the status of AOL's internal mail-system. You
>have your answer, and it is the correct one.
I don't particularly want to know anything about AOL's internal
mail-system, but to ignore requests for information concerning a problem
that affects me is simply rude. If you had said to me that Jay is out for
a couple of days and we will deal with it as soon as he gets back, then I
would have been more accepting of the delay.
But, even worse is that I sent messages concerning this situation starting the the 27th of May when the message started bouncing. The first message I received from anyone was from Hi2Jason, who asked me to send him a copy of the bounced message. That was on the 31st of May, and it was in response to one of AOL's customers. I didn't get a response from him until the 3rd of June, and that was one that basicaly said that he was unable to discover anything. Do you have any idea of my level of frustration?
AOL may be the "biggest guy on the block" but that doesn't give you the right to simply trample over everybody else.
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott
In a message dated 6/7/97 3:10:30 PM EST, you write:
> Can you explain to me what criteria is used to determine when an address is
> blocked? IE what does it take? 10% invalid address sent 10 times? etc. Do
> you follow what I'm trying to get at?
I can only tell you that it's N bounces in M minutes... the numbers change pretty frequently and are Top Secret.
3 or 4 definitely shouldn't trigger it unless you do a lot of mailings.. how many messages a day does your list average?
Jay
>In a message dated 6/7/97 3:10:30 PM EST, you write:
>
>> Can you explain to me what criteria is used to determine when an address is
>> blocked? IE what does it take? 10% invalid address sent 10 times? etc. Do
>> you follow what I'm trying to get at?
>
>I can only tell you that it's N bounces in M minutes... the numbers change
>pretty frequently and are Top Secret.
>
>3 or 4 definitely shouldn't trigger it unless you do a lot of mailings..
how
>many messages a day does your list average?
All depends. Anywhere from 50-100, very rarely will it go over that, but it has.
>
>Jay
This just showed up this morning. Come on, let's not start this all over again.
>From:
>To: Postmaster@irc.tco.com
>Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:22:23 -0400
>Subject: Undeliverable Mail
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>
>The following message could not be sent to xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com' and 'xxx@aol.com at host aol.com (198.81.19.154)
>because the sender address was rejected.
>550 <sheltie-list@mcf.com>... Delivery not authorized, message refused.
>
> ----Unsent message follows----
>
>Received: from liststar.mcf.com (165.254.158.8) by irc.tco.com with SMTP
(Apple
> Internet Mail Server 2.0b9); Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:22:07 -0400
>Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:28:31 -0400 (EDT)
>Message-Id: <970608002830_-530513496@emout11.mail.aol.com>
>From: xxx@aol.com
>Subject: Re: SS-CHAT: rainbow bridge
>To: xxx@molalla.net
>Cc: sheltie-list@mcf.com
>Precedence: Bulk
>Errors-to: sheltie-list-request@mcf.com
>X-URL: http://restarea.mcf.com/sheltiehomepage/
>X-Headings: SS-Attn:,SS-Care:,SS-Beha:,SS-Bree:,SS-Chat:,SS-Conf:
>X-Headings: SS-Hist:,SS-Perf:,SS-Resc:,SS-Ads:,SS-Natl:
>
>In a message dated 97-06-07 06:54:46 EDT, you write:
>
><< Maybe you remember me telling about my softhearted daughter
> yesterday. The one who had the sheep die when they were giving her
> dog herding lessons. Today Missy, one of her pygmy goats, died, and
> she has been crying all day. I was wondering, is the Rainbow Bridge
> just for dogs, or are all God's creatures included? Maybe that would
> comfort her.
>
> Thank you,
> Norma and bear >>
>
>Norma,
>
>I just printed a copy for a friend who just had to put her 15 year old
cat to
>sleep. The word *dog* is not mentioned. I believe that you can find all
of
>our beloved creatures there. Please extend my sympathy to your daughter.
>
>Lea & Tru
>Norwalk, CT
>
In a message dated 6/8/97 9:34:10 AM EST, farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani) writes:
> This just showed up this morning. Come on, let's not start this all over
> again.
Sorry about that. The master drive holding the blocked list blacked out, and we had to restore it from backup.. I removed sheltie-list again.
Jay
>In a message dated 6/8/97 9:34:10 AM EST, farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
>writes:
>
>> This just showed up this morning. Come on, let's not start this all
over
>> again.
>
>Sorry about that. The master drive holding the blocked list blacked out,
and
>we had to restore it from backup.. I removed sheltie-list again.
>
>Jay
Ok, thanks for letting me know.
Sorry to report this, but as of 12:41pm, sheltie-list messages are still being bounced. Here is one of the bounced messages:
>Received: from irc.tco.com (165.254.158.5) by mcf.com with ESMTP (Apple
> Internet Mail Server 2.0b9); Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:47:29 -0400
>From:
>To: Postmaster@irc.tco.com
>Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:41:52 -0400
>Message-ID: <1346348784-5719147@irc.tco.com>
>Subject: Undeliverable Mail
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="afc059100057446b@irc.tco.com"
>
>The following message could not be sent to xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com',
>'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com',
>'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', '
>sandyeggo2@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com
>', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com', 'xxx@aol.com' and '
>xxx@aol.com at host aol.com (198.81.11.55) because the sender
address
>was rejected.
>550 <sheltie-list@mcf.com>... Delivery not authorized, message refused.
>
> ----Unsent message follows----
>
>Received: from liststar.mcf.com (165.254.158.8) by irc.tco.com with SMTP
(Apple
> Internet Mail Server 2.0b9); Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:37:35 -0400
>Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:17:57, -0500
>Message-Id: <199706081617.MAA129376@mime3.prodigy.com>
>From: xxx@prodigy.com (MS MARY E COUZENS)
>Subject: Re: SS-CARE:CHAT:
>To: xxx@gwtc.net
>Cc: sheltie-list@mcf.com
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Precedence: Bulk
>Errors-to: sheltie-list-request@mcf.com
>X-URL: http://restarea.mcf.com/sheltiehomepage/
>X-Headings: SS-Attn:,SS-Care:,SS-Beha:,SS-Bree:,SS-Chat:,SS-Conf:
>X-Headings: SS-Hist:,SS-Perf:,SS-Resc:,SS-Ads:,SS-Natl:
>
>-- [ From: Mary E Couzens * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] --
>
>Hi Rhiannon; I'm so sorry to hear about Taffy. At 16 yrs old and having
>had you for a friend all your life, she must have had a lot of wonderful
>years. Believe me I know how difficult it is to lose such a close
>companion. They come to read your mind. As you said "it was her time"
>but you wish it wasn't. That's the hard and painful part. We know that
>they are tired and ready to go to the Bridge; but, no matter how much we
>think we are ready, we never really are for that separation.
>
>Yes, it is a separation; but, in time, the good and wonderful memories
>will replace the recent painful ones.
>And some day, when your time has come and must leave Grandkids of your
>own, Taffy will be waiting for you at Rainbow Bridge.
>
>BTW, I have posted a lovely poem on my puppy/computer room wall that
>ends with "For when you spell DOG backwards You will Get The Name of
>God". If you want the entire poem, let me know and I'll send it to you.
>I hesitate to post it publically since it carries a 1982 copyright. Any
>one know when they expire?
>
>Take care and be assured that you are in my heart and prayers.
>
>Mary Couzens
>xxx@cybrzn.com
>-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
>
>> Date: Saturday, 07-Jun-97 12:32 AM
>>
>> From: Coni Scott \ Internet: (xxx@gwtc.net)
>> To: Sheltie-list@pt.com \ Internet: (sheltie-list@mcf.com)
>>
>> Subject: SS-CARE:CHAT:
>>
>> I Just got some very sad news from home. Yesterday, my grandmother had
>to put
>> my dog to sleep. She was very old and it was her time, I guess. But I
>wish it
>> wasn't. She was my friend for my entire life, and I really miss her.
>She
>> wasn't a Sheltie, she was a Cocker Spanial, and she was 16 years old.
>Her name
>> was Taffy.
>> But I know in my heart, that she's not in pain anymore. And one day,
>I'll see
>> her again, at the Rainbow Bridge.
>> Rhiannon
>> The future belongs to those that believe
>> in the beauty of their dreams.
>> Coni Scott
>> Dakota Wind Shetland Sheepdogs
>> xxx@gwtc.net
>> Buffalo Gap, S.D.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>-------- REPLY, End of original message --------
>
>
>
>
In a message dated 6/8/97 11:54:28 AM EST, you write:
> Sorry to report this, but as of 12:41pm, sheltie-list messages are still
> being bounced. Here is one of the bounced messages:
Hmm.. I just telnet'd into port 25 of a mail gateway and got no problem with MAIL FROM: <sheltie-list@mcf.com>. Are you still seeing bounces??
Jay
>In a message dated 6/8/97 11:54:28 AM EST, you write:
>
>> Sorry to report this, but as of 12:41pm, sheltie-list messages are still
>> being bounced. Here is one of the bounced messages:
>
>Hmm.. I just telnet'd into port 25 of a mail gateway and got no problem
with
>MAIL FROM: <sheltie-list@mcf.com>. Are you still seeing bounces??
>
>Jay
No, not any more. It bounced about 10-20 messages, and then it quit bouncing. I guess it was confused :)
Why am I not surprised at this response? In fact, AOL *WAS* blocking email from my list, and has FINALLY been resolved. You can contact Scott Crain <pmd3@aol.net> for more information about the problem.
>Dear farokh,
>
>I am responding on behalf of Steve Case in regards to your recent e-mail.
>
>I apologize for the misunderstanding and can answer your question. We
are not blocking mail and are trying to determine why. Mail from
listserves are not going thru correctly and we are working to find out
exactly where the problems lies. I need some information from you so that
we can fix this problem as quickly as possible. The name of the
listserve. That way we can track this to find out why it is not accepting
the mail.
>
>Thank you for using America Online. If you have any further questions or
comments, please feel free to write to me direct at "RstMichael". When
replying please hit the forward button.
>
>
>Michael Thompson
>Representative Support Team
>
>
>--------------------
>
>Excuse me, but do you even have a CLUE what you are replying to? This is
>simply proof positive that Steve Case really doesn't give a flying about
>subscribers to his service, just making his profit on stock options.
>
>My message was in reference to AOL's arbitrary bouncing of messages from a
>mailing list that I run. To date I have not received any kind of answer as
>to WHY this was done, OR if it has been fixed.
>
>>Dear farokh,
>>
>>I am responding to your recent e-mail message on behalf of Steve Case.
>> Thank you for taking the time to write to us.
>>
>>In an effort to protect the interests of our members, and in response to
the
>>large volume of complaints AOL has received from our members regarding
>>unsolicited commercial email, AOL has set PreferredMail (keyword
PREFERRED
>>MAIL) to protect your account from receiving email from certain junk
email
>>sites. In order to identify these sites, we are asking members to
forward
>>junk email to the TOSSpam mailbox. This list is updated regularly.
>>
>>Please be assured that AOL does not provide your email address to any
junk
>>emailer. These names are collected through a variety of methods:
capturing
>>screen names in chat rooms, on bulletin boards, from the Usenet, and
through
>>random searches of our Member Directory. America Online is working on
many
>>fronts (including litigation in a Federal District Court) to put an end
to
>>junk email.
>>
>>Please let us know if we can offer any future support.
>>--------------------
>>
>>From: farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
>>To: hi2jason@aol.com, listmaster@aol.com, stevecase@aol.com,
>>postmaster@aol.com
>>Since I have not received any kind of reply to my message from this
>>morning, consider this your notification that I am going to start
>>forwarding the bounced emails to the following addresses:
>>
>>stevecase@aol.com
>>listmaster@aol.com
>>hi2jason@aol.com
>>postmaster@aol.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Farokh
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Check out my WWW server at http://restarea.mcf.com/
>>Suzuki Cavalcade/VX800 rider; list owner for suzuki-l, sheltie-list,
others.
>>Send mail to listserv@mcf.com and put "help" in the body (without the
>>quotes).
>>Or check out http://restarea.mcf.com/pages/lists/listserv.html
Dear farokh,
I am writing to you on behalf of America Online to answer your recent question.
Thank you for using America Online. We really appreciate members support and input. We are happy to assist members at anytime.
Thanks again for your loyalty and continued support. Enjoy America Online.
Thank you for using America Online. We hope that you enjoy our service.
The Techmail Department
America Online, Inc.
PS: Try Keyword QUESTIONS for answers to your AOL questions and Keyword AOL INSIDER for up to date news.
--------------------
Why am I not surprised at this response? In fact, AOL *WAS* blocking email from my list, and has FINALLY been resolved. You can contact Scott Crain <pmd3@aol.net> for more information about the problem.
>Dear farokh,
>
>I am responding on behalf of Steve Case in regards to your recent e-mail.
>
>I apologize for the misunderstanding and can answer your question. We are
>not blocking mail and are trying to determine why. Mail from listserves
>are not going thru correctly and we are working to find out exactly where
>the problems lies. I need some information from you so that we can fix
>this problem as quickly as possible. The name of the listserve. That way
>we can track this to find out why it is not accepting the mail.
>
>Thank you for using America Online. If you have any further questions or
>comments, please feel free to write to me direct at "RstMichael". When
>replying please hit the forward button.
>
>
>Michael Thompson
>Representative Support Team
>
>
>--------------------
>
>Excuse me, but do you even have a CLUE what you are replying to? This is
>simply proof positive that Steve Case really doesn't give a flying about
>subscribers to his service, just making his profit on stock options.
>
>My message was in reference to AOL's arbitrary bouncing of messages from a
>mailing list that I run. To date I have not received any kind of answer as
>to WHY this was done, OR if it has been fixed.
>
>>Dear farokh,
>>
>>I am responding to your recent e-mail message on behalf of Steve Case.
>> Thank you for taking the time to write to us.
>>
>>In an effort to protect the interests of our members, and in response to
t=
he
>>large volume of complaints AOL has received from our members regarding
>>unsolicited commercial email, AOL has set PreferredMail (keyword
PREFERRED
>>MAIL) to protect your account from receiving email from certain junk
email
>>sites. In order to identify these sites, we are asking members to
forward
>>junk email to the TOSSpam mailbox. This list is updated regularly.
>>
>>Please be assured that AOL does not provide your email address to any
junk
>>emailer. These names are collected through a variety of methods:
capturing
>>screen names in chat rooms, on bulletin boards, from the Usenet, and
throu=
gh
>>random searches of our Member Directory. America Online is working on
ma=
ny
>>fronts (including litigation in a Federal District Court) to put an end
to
>>junk email.
>>
>>Please let us know if we can offer any future support.
>>--------------------
>>
>>From: farokh@mcf.com (Farokh Irani)
>>To: hi2jason@aol.com, listmaster@aol.com, stevecase@aol.com,
>>postmaster@aol.com
>>Since I have not received any kind of reply to my message from this
>>morning, consider this your notification that I am going to start
>>forwarding the bounced emails to the following addresses:
>>
>>stevecase@aol.com
>>listmaster@aol.com
>>hi2jason@aol.com
>>postmaster@aol.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Farokh
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
>>Check out my WWW server at http://restarea.mcf.com/
>>Suzuki Cavalcade/VX800 rider; list owner for suzuki-l, sheltie-list,
other=
s.
>>Send mail to listserv@mcf.com and put "help" in the body (without the
>>quotes).
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=46arokh
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Suzuki Cavalcade/VX800 rider; list owner for suzuki-l, sheltie-list, others.
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Subj: RE:SS-Chat:WriteNancy (AOL problems & S-List)
Date: 97-06-07 06:58:07 EDT
From: xxx@aol.com
To: Sheltie-List@mcf.com
CC: xxx@rmgate.pop.indiana.edu
This is a message I recieved from WriteNancy@aol tonight. (Friday 7:15pm 6-6-97)
Do you think we should let her know that we are getting S-List mail?? Or should we leave well enough alone??
Judi Barry
Southland Sheltie Rescue, Inc. (SSRI)
Dear All,
I am sending a short note today just to let you all know that the investigation into this matter is ongoing. I am completely aware that your mail list provider has sent an abrupt letter to many of you as to his intentions on this matter.
Please bear in mind that your provider has the ability to learn the reason why this is happening....whether it be technical on his part, technical on our part, or due to a block placed on lists sent through his name due to content. At that point, the decision as to whether to make those corrections necessary is up to him.
His correspondence has indicated that he has already been advised that this problem is on his end. If that is the case, and he has chosen not to take corrective steps, we obviously are unable to address that problem. I am currently awaiting confirmation from the technical supervisor as to the nature of the problem and if the federal privacy act allows, I will forward that information to you as soon as possible.
I will be in touch with you all as soon as I receive that information.
Nancy
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 22:25:46 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <970606222544_-329190291@emout07.mail.aol.com>
From: xxx@aol.com
Subject: RE:SS-Chat:WriteNancy (AOL problems & S-List)
To: Sheltie-List@mcf.com
Cc: xxx@rmgate.pop.indiana.edu
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---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: xxx@aol.com
To: Sheltie-List@mcf.com
CC: xxx@rmgate.pop.indiana.edu
Date: 97-06-07 06:58:07 EDT
This is a message I recieved from WriteNancy@aol tonight. (Friday 7:15pm 6-6-97)
Do you think we should let her know that we are getting S-List mail?? Or should we leave well enough alone??
Judi Barry
Southland Sheltie Rescue, Inc. (SSRI)
Dear All,
I am sending a short note today just to let you all know that the investigation into this matter is ongoing. I am completely aware that your mail list provider has sent an abrupt letter to many of you as to his intentions on this matter.
Please bear in mind that your provider has the ability to learn the reason why this is happening....whether it be technical on his part, technical on our part, or due to a block placed on lists sent through his name due to content. At that point, the decision as to whether to make those corrections necessary is up to him.
His correspondence has indicated that he has already been advised that this problem is on his end. If that is the case, and he has chosen not to take corrective steps, we obviously are unable to address that problem. I am currently awaiting confirmation from the technical supervisor as to the nature of the problem and if the federal privacy act allows, I will forward that information to you as soon as possible.
I will be in touch with you all as soon as I receive that information.
Nancy
I'm just finally getting around to catching up on my reading, and I just *had* to comment on this message.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but "WriteNancy@aol.com" had NOTHING to do with getting the AOL problem fixed. She NEVER wrote me a message, but she did write others at AOL, explaining how the trouble was at MY end, and that I should be fixing my problem instead of sending messages to AOL people. The following is the message she sent:
>Dear All,
>
> I am sending a short note today just to let you all know that the
>investigation into this matter is ongoing. I am completely aware that
your
>mail list provider has sent an abrupt letter to many of you as to his
>intentions on this matter.
>
> Please bear in mind that your provider has the ability to learn the
>reason why this is happening....whether it be technical on his part,
>technical on our part, or due to a block placed on lists sent through his
>name due to content. At that point, the decision as to whether to make
those
>corrections necessary is up to him.
>
> His correspondence has indicated that he has already been advised
that
>this problem is on his end. If that is the case, and he has chosen not to
>take corrective steps, we obviously are unable to address that problem.
I am
>currently awaiting confirmation from the technical supervisor as to the
>nature of the problem and if the federal privacy act allows, I will
forward
>that information to you as soon as possible.
>
> I will be in touch with you all as soon as I receive that
information.
>
>Nancy
I did send her a message in response to another AOL subscriber's request
but never received any reply. Needless to say, she was ignorant of my
efforts to determine what the problem was, and apparently she was also
ignorant of AOL's complete LACK of response to my emails.
To be honest, NO ONE at AOL was of any real help, and it wasn't until I started forwarding the sheltie-list messages that AOL was bouncing to people at AOL that anything was done.
>To Everyone On The Sheltie List:
>
> Thanks to Laurie (screen name: "xxx"), who managed somehow to
locate a
>caring and competent individual within the AOL maze, it appears we've
finally
>solved the disasterous mess with AOL and have now "returned to the fold."
> You have no idea how glad we are to be back -- and hopefully, to stay!
> The following is a letter I wrote today to "WriteNancy," the person
Laurie
>found to assist us. I thought some of you on AOL might be interested in
>contacting her as well. She may not have physically been the one to solve
>the problem, but she's the only one who stayed in touch with us regularly
and
>really went to bat to make things happen.
>
> Kip
>
>
>Subj: Re: Your Help With Our Sheltie List
>Date: 97-06-08 11:58:42 EDT
>From: xxx
>To: WriteNancy
>
>Dear Nancy,
>
> With great admiration and respect, I've been following your efforts on
>behalf of those of us on AOL who subscribe to the Sheltie List. I'm sure
by
>this point, you've discovered we are dedicated and devoted to this list
(as
>we are similarly dedicated and devoted to our sheltie dogs, no doubt); and
>after days of unwinding the mysterious skein of confusion surrounding the
>sudden AOL blockage of our list serve, you are more than ready to say
>good-bye to all of us and get on with helping someone else!
>
> But I think you should know just how much your tireless efforts and
hard
>work are appreciated by us. I haven't written to you directly during all
of
>this -- I knew you had enough to deal with, and other members were doing
an
>excellent job of communicating with you. However, you accomplished what
no
>one else we contacted within AOL was able to do: solve the problem. And
for
>that, you deserve an enormous vote of thanks. More importantly, you kept
in
>constant communication with Lauria ("Layria") to let her know what was
going
>on and what progress you were making. Just having periodic updates from
you
>was more reassuring than you know.
>
> Nancy, I'm president of a communications company in Nashville, TN.
Like
>most of the other 300 AOL members affected during this "sheltie list
crisis,"
>I have been a loyal, staunch supporter of the company, even during the
months
>when many others were bailing out to other ISP's. I believe in AOL; and
have
>always felt a sense of community (almost like living in a "global
village")
>within AOL.
>
> But I have been very disappointed and disillusioned overall by the
>company's handling of our particular situation. Except for you, no one
else
>contacted at any level or within any department of AOL ever took the time
to
>respond to our numerous queries and pleas for assistance. I know I
>personally called at least four times to Technical Assistance via the
>toll-free numbers and spoke with support staff; wrote letters to AOL's
>Postmaster; wrote to Steve Case; and even spent my own long distance money
>calling your AOL headquarters in Virginia and leaving messages for
executives
>in Corporate Communications, asking for a call-back. No one ever
responded.
>
>
> In my last message to the voice mail in Corporate Communications, I
>mentioned the importance of good public relations in retaining a positive
>relationship with customers. This is where AOL has let us all down. It's
>apparent through the sheltie list situation that AOL is not equipped, or
>doesn't know how, to handle good public relations. Even when problems
can't
>be resolved easily, a warm and friendly response from someone within a
>company does wonders to ease the friction and make people understand that
at
>least the effort's being made, and that someone does care. That is where
you
>have excelled. I'm only sorry that the rest of your company doesn't
>understand this important fact.
>
> AOL has already lost some members through this sheltie list situation.
> These are members who would still be with AOL if they had been given a
word
>of encouragement to make them stay. These members would not have left had
>anyone taken a moment to write back with a personal message as you have
done.
> The rest of us are still with AOL but much more sober now about the
>company's approach and commitment to us. Had it not been for you, Nancy,
we
>might never have had a satisfactory resolution to our problem. The hours
and
>hours we spent collectively attempting to reach someone (anyone) in some
>(any) department of AOL who would get involved were wasted efforts indeed.
>
> I hope you will accept my deepest gratitude for your help and
assistance
>on behalf of the sheltie list. We are crossing our fingers that we don't
>have any more inexplicable delays in receiving our mail, and that we can
all
>now get on to other things in our lives!
>
> Thanks again, Nancy, not only for a job well done, but an excellent
job of
>showing how public relations should be handled.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Kip Kirby, President
> Media/Mark
> Nashville, TN